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First Meeting of the Collaborative Forum on Mother and Baby Homes Address by Dr Katherine Zappone, Minister for Children and Youth Affairs

Welcome Collaborative Forum members. I am very pleased to welcome you to Government Buildings today, to meet  you, and to see this Collaborative Forum come to fruition.

This   Forum   is   intended to be a new, innovative and, crucially, collaborative way of making decisions on matters of concern to you, and to the other former residents of Mother and Baby Homes and their families.

Your participation is absolutely vital.

Many of you have travelled from across the country and from overseas to be here. I want to acknowledge your commitment to this new vision for working together.

This  is  a  real  opportunity  for us to take one more step in putting our  shameful  past  behind  us—not  forgetting  it,  or simply ‘moving on’, but acknowledging,  knowing,  recording,  and building on it; using our past to help us to move forward.

The past and the future are not divisible; they are part of a continuum.

Our collective challenge is to find a way to transition from a difficult past to a more loving, caring, rights-based, and empathetic future. What we need is a facilitating environment in which citizens can live lives free from shame and stigma.

You will be the voice for your community and represent it to the best of your ability as we try to do this together.

I know it is and will continue to be emotional and challenging for you to be part of this process and I deeply value your generosity in deciding, nevertheless, to participate.

It is my hope that your deliberations today and in the future will support, facilitate and empower you to find solutions to the issues that the community you are here to represent feel so strongly about.

My view is that we are equal partners in this endeavour. That is one of the reasons why I was determined that this Forum would have independence. Which is why an Independent Panel undertook the selection.

Following a very successful media campaign, 90 Expressions of Interest were received to participate. This level of interest posed a difficult task for the Selection Panel, which had to choose 19 members. They worked long and hard to find you all.

I understand they took into account a lot of different factors to make their choices. They tried to ensure that there are representatives from as many of the institutions as possible that applied.

They were adamant that mothers and children would make up the majority of the Forum.

They also made sure to select a diverse group to represent the community of former residents and their advocates.

I thank them for the excellent job that they have done.  It took longer than expected to get there, but their efforts have been worth the wait! You  truly are representative of your peers. I wish to thank Mr Jim Halley for chairing this selection process.

It is my hope this Forum will propose solutions to some of the challenges we face. However, I acknowledge that neither you nor I can deliver on these proposals alone.

As  a  result,  and  in  the spirit of collaboration on which this Forum is based,  I  give  you  a  commitment  here  today  to  engage  as many of my government  colleagues  as possible to deliver these solutions in as far as we  can  and  to  help  ease the pain and suffering you have endured for so long.

For   that   is of the  essence  of  collaboration.  We often think  of collaboration as something grand, but the truth is that collaboration takes place  on  a  smaller scale, within teams that have shared aims and often a narrow focus.

All  it  requires  is  two  or  more  people  (a team), working together (a process),  towards  shared  goals  (a purpose). In this case, collaboration provides  a  way  in  which  the  Forum  and  the  State can engage to find solutions—a  way  in which we can be a team, together, working through this process with a common purpose.

This Collaborative  Forum  was born out of a recognised need to progress a number  of  key  areas  where  we can, while we await the completion of the Commission of Investigation’s work. To do this I hope you will use your wealth of knowledge and experience for the  greater  good,  make  this  the vehicle to discuss fully the issues at hand,  and see all sides of the argument to propose viable solutions that I can present to government.

In  doing  so  I  recommend  that  you  make use of your Chairman. While Mr Kearney is not a former resident, he brings a wealth of experience from his distinguished career in public service. This has given him a valuable insight into how best to ensure effectiveness in  collaboration.  Indeed,  he  has  a  proven  track record of supporting successful  collaborative  projects, such as his work with the Moore Street consultative group.

He will play a key role in the establishment of an effective and inclusive Forum,  working  with and in the interests of former residents. As outlined in  its  Charter,  it  will  be  a  participant-centred process with its 20 members  adopting  a  consensus-oriented  decision making approach to their discussions. Gerry’s job  will be to facilitate you to create and drive the process for yourselves. I  am  confident  that  Gerry’s  approach  will  cement  your confidence in him as your Chairman.

It  is  important  that  we also acknowledge that it may not be possible to deliver some things you may want at this time.

We  might  have  to await the reports from the Commission and examine their findings  and  recommendations. But you will hopefully have covered many of the  issues  that  might  emerge  from  the Commission’s investigations and subsequent  findings,  and  we  will  be  ahead  of  the  game to get swift agreement from my government colleagues on how to respond. Tuam and Next Steps

As  you  will all be aware, one of the most important decisions that I face now  as  Minister  is  what  I should recommend to Cabinet on the course of action  to  be taken in relation to human remains at the site of the former Mother and Baby Home in Tuam.

As  a  Cabinet  we  will  then  together decide the way forward. I trust my colleagues  will  be guided by the expert legal and human rights principles which the recommendation placed before them will be based on.

The  Government is aware that for survivors and all connected with the site at  Tuam  this will be a hugely important moment. We are also aware of that this is a decision which will be watched and examined around the world – to ensure it meets best international practice.

It  is  a  decision  which  will  not  be taken lightly – but it will be an informed decision.

Last  Monday night I visited Tuam once more, and I heard the voices of many people who want to be listened to and understood. I met with former residents, with relatives of those who stayed in the Home and  with  people  who  live  near the area now. It was a good, if at times difficult and emotional, conversation and I am privileged to have been able to engage with people once more on this most sensitive matter.

I  visited  Tuam  again  this  week  because, as the person responsible for making  this  recommendation  to Cabinet, I want to ensure that I have done everything  I  can to hear the voices of the people who will be impacted by it.

I take very seriously my moral and ethical responsibility to make the right recommendation to Government. Regardless  of  what  I  recommend,  my  decision will not please everyone. Unfortunately, that is not possible.

However,  what  I  hope  is possible is to assure everyone that I will have made my recommendation the basis of principles and empathy.

So let me take this opportunity to outline some of the key principles that are guiding me in discerning what is the right thing to do.

   -         Firstly,  I  am  committed  to  making  sure  that  we  comply  with international standards and norms when designing and implementing the decision on Tuam, including our obligations under international human rights law.

      In this respect I have been greatly aided by a report prepared by Dr Geoffrey Shannon on the human rights issues that arise in the case of Tuam.

      The  Attorney  General has been considering the report before it goes       before  Cabinet  for  publication  in  early  September.  Dr  Shannon       concludes  that  we  have  a  duty  to  act,  as far as is reasonably       possible.

   -         Secondly, I want to make sure that all of those affected are central       to  the  design  and implementation of what we do next. This includes       both  the  former  residents  of  the  Home  and  their  families and       relations, and the people of Tuam themselves.

      Tuam  is  more  than  this  history. It is a community and a place of       goodness  and  care.  The  former Mother and Baby Home is part of its       story,  but  it  is not all of it. Similarly, experiences in Tuam are       part  of  the  lives,  histories and stories of former residents, but       they are also not everything.

      Through listening—truly listening—I hope to be able to ensure that we       honour  all  of  these parts of the identities and realities of those       affected. I will not shy away from the challenge that this poses.

   -         Thirdly,  and  relatedly,  women’s  rights must be respected in this       process.  What  happened  in  Tuam  was  part  of a pattern of gender       injustice that we cannot overcome if we do not acknowledge it.

      So  often  it  was  women—either  as  mothers or as children—who were       affected. Their voices and their rights must be central.

   -         Similarly,  and  fourthly,  I am committed to taking a child-centred       approach.  That  has always been a commitment of mine in my work, and       is  all the more so now in my work as Minister for Children and Youth       Affairs.

   -        Fifthly, I am committed to developing real partnerships through which       we can make and implement decisions. To the extent possible I want us       to  approach  this  in  a  non-hierarchical manner; that is what this       Collaborative Forum is all about. These  are  my  guiding principles. They are not just words on a page. They mean  a lot to me personally, and shape the recommendations I must make now and may need to make in the future. They  are  based  in  my belief that as we move forward in making decisions about  the site in Tuam we must place at the very core of our consideration our  ethical  and  moral duties of justice and love towards those who lived and died in the Mother and Baby Home in Tuam. As Proust says in Remembrance of Things Past “Love … produces real geological upheavals of thought.” We  must  act  with  empathy  and  compassion  towards  those we previously abandoned.  Empathy and compassion are allies of love. We  must  recognise  that there is an on-going relationship between us, the living, and those who died in Tuam.

At  the  heart  of that relationship is the bond of love between each human person,  which  requires  us  always  to  act  with empathy towards others, especially those who have been shamed and stigmatised in the past.

In  this  case, it demands that we make decisions that recognise these were people  whose  futures  were  denied them, with families and relatives, and that they were part of our community.

It is that commitment to love that will help us to deliver justice for what happened in our past. I  am aware that any decisions that we need to make in relation to Tuam may possibly  arise  in  relation to other sites, but that of course depends on the conclusions of the Commission, which is due to report next February.

However, every situation is different—context, place and people matter.

I  will  make  my  decision  on what I recommend to Cabinet based on what I believe  is  right  for  Tuam;  for  the many histories and communities and individuals whom this decision will touch.

If  other  decisions  need  to  be made in the future, I will take the same principles-based approach to them. Thus,  these  principles guide my decisions and recommendations and help me as  I read and digest the consultations, expert reports, and advices I have received, as well as when I listen to the perspectives of this Forum and of the people of Tuam.

They  also  enable me to develop a principled-based vision of how we should approach the next steps in Tuam, rather than focusing in the first instance of any particular Option per se.

I  would  very  much  have  wished to announce the Government’s decision in relation  to  Tuam by now, but unfortunately the legal issues are even more complicated  than  we  could  have  anticipated when we started out on this road. I  hope to be able to make a specific announcement of what we will do early in  the  Autumn,  but in the meantime, I want to share with you my personal vision  for where we should be heading, informed by those principles I have already outlined. This  is  of course predicated on clearing the right legal pathway to where we  want  to  go,  and  it  is  subject  to  the agreement of my Government colleagues, which I believe will be forthcoming.

You  will  be  aware the results of the important consultation process that was led by Galway Co Council was recently published.

It highlights the very different but equally valid views expressed by those affected and who participated in the consultation. In  brief,  those  who  were resident in the Tuam Mother and Baby Home, and their  relatives,  are strongly supportive of a full forensic excavation of the site.

In contrast, local residents of the site favour memorialisation and with no further investigative work or disturbance of the site.

I  can  appreciate  and respect both views, but they are obviously mutually exclusive.

This  means  that  as  we  progress  our  vision for the site, we must work closely  with  local  residents to ensure that their concerns are addressed and that, even in the absence of consensus, we can proceed in collaboration and partnership, adopting a rights-based approach.

Based  on  my  considerations  so  far, I believe that an approach based on human  rights  and  the  principles  I  have already outlined would involve taking all reasonable steps to investigate the scope for retrieval of human remains and, if logistically possible, to exhume and re-inter the bodies in a respectful and sensitive manner.

Of  course,  questions  of  scale  arise  here,  which  are  not altogether straightforward. In  particular, I need to decide whether the rights-based approach requires full  excavation of all land formerly occupied by the Mother and Baby Home, or  whether  it  would  be  more  appropriate to test all the land and the excavate  those  areas  where  anomalies  arise,  as  well of course as the Memorial Garden and subsurface chambers.

The  latter  is  less disruptive though still thorough, however it does not absolutely  eliminate  the  unlikely  possibility  of  some  remains  being undetected.

The  former  eliminates  all  such risk, but we cannot know from the outset that it would in fact result in a more complete investigation. That is, we cannot say for certain that we would find out anything we would not  have  discovered through the slightly less intrusive and more targeted approach.

In  other  words,  we  cannot know that one is ‘more right’ than the other. Instead,  I  must  use  the  principles outlined above to help me to make a judgement between these approaches.

It  is  not  something  to which there is a single right answer; it is only something to which we must try to achieve the best possible answer. Unfortunately  this  is  not  straightforward.  There  are  some scientific challenges  that  we  must overcome. There are also some ethical challenges about the treatment of remains.

But  of  an  urgent  nature are the many legal issues to be dealt with, the most important of which is to make sure we actually have legal authority to exhume  the  remains,  examine  them,  carry out successful DNA tests where possible, and re-inter them in a place to be agreed.

However,  if  what  seems  to  us  to  be  the best approach requires us to introduce  legislation  to  ensure  it  can  be  done,  then we will not be dissuaded from that task.

I do not mean, here, to understate the challenge facing us. It involves the law relating to burials, graves, exhumations and coronial practices. It covers the actions that can be taken by An Garda Síochána, orders of the Courts and the giving of authority to State bodies to take specific action. It  also  relates  to  decisions  about  DNA testing, and to who can make a formal  determination about identification of an individual when scientific testing has been completed.

This  all  sounds  so impersonal and clinical – which unfortunately it is – and  yet  we  must  deal  with  these  matters  despite the immensely deep, personal stories underlying each and every baby and child who was buried in the  site. We must do so because we need to have a clear legal framework to deliver our shared commitment to doing what is right in Tuam.

Hearing  these sensitive, difficult issues spoken about as legal challenges is  difficult, not least because we all want action as soon as possible.  I certainly do.

But  for  the moment, what I can say is that we are working our way through these  extraordinarily  difficult  legal  and  practical issues so that the Government  will  be  empowered  to address fully this shameful part of our collective past.

I  very  much hope to be able to bring proposals to Government by the early Autumn, and I commit to being as open as possible as things develop.

It is always my intention to carry out my role as Minister in a transparent manner,  to keep people informed of my decisions, to explain delays, and to listen and hear what people have to say. This is particularly true in relation to the Mother and Baby Homes matters. Unfortunately, solutions are often harder to find than expected, and delays sometimes cannot be avoided.

What  I  can  assure  you  of however is my commitment to moving this issue forward, to working in partnership with all those affected, and to being as honest  as I can be about the decisions that are being made, the basis upon which  they  are  being  made, and the challenges we face in trying to give effect to them.

Conclusion

And so, I want to wish you every success in your endeavours here today, and for the rest of your time together.

I want to thank you for showing faith in the collaborative approach and for bearing  the  emotional  and other labour of participating in this Forum on behalf of yourselves and of so many others.

And I want, again, to pledge to you my support in being a committed partner to  you  in  bringing  forward  your  work  and in doing what I can, within whatever  legal  or other constraints may arise, to promote your work to my colleagues in Government. I look forward to hearing from you very soon.